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Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/1O6tlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> There are 15 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. Coal load problem and questions From: "Erik W" 2. Re: Coal load problem and questions From: "Bill" 3. RE: Coal load problem and questions From: "Pete Reinhold" 4. Re: Re: Coal load problem and questions From: Darryl Huffman 5. Re: Re: Glue for Wood Kits From: "train3guy" 6. Re: CNGQ seeks reviwer for new mag From: m2fq@aol.com 7. Re: Coal load problem and questions - shameless ad! From: Mike Conder 8. Re: Coal load problem and questions From: "Greg & Judy Jackson" 9. Railmaster Exports questions From: "nevinwwilson" 10. Re: Railmaster Exports questions From: Paul Scoles 11. Re: Coal load problem and questions From: "bill b..." 12. Re: Mill Run Coal From: usairman737@worldnet.att.net 13. Re: Railmaster Exports questions From: tuhr.barnes@fluor.com 14. RE: Railmaster Exports questions From: "Jeff Smith" 15. Re: Mill Run Coal From: Mike Conder ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 13:39:09 -0000 From: "Erik W" Subject: Coal load problem and questions I've been using Highball Ballast coal and gluing it into my tenders/ gondolas with a diluted 50% Elmer's white glue, 50% water mix. I first saturate the load with alcohol using an eyedropper to "wet" the load. I then apply the diluted glue mixture with the eyedropper, again saturating the load. The problem I'm having is once dry; you can see the glue between the grains of coal. It looks wrong. Rather than looking like a pile of loose coal it looks glued together. I've seen plenty of examples of coal loads where this is not the case. My questions are what are you guys using for coal and more importantly what product/ technique are you using to glue coal into your tenders/ gondolas? Erik W ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 14:13:59 -0000 From: "Bill" Subject: Re: Coal load problem and questions --- In Sn3@yahoogroups.com, "Erik W" wrote: > I've been using Highball Ballast coal and gluing it into > my tenders/ gondolas with a diluted 50% Elmer's white > glue, 50% water mix. > Erik W Erik; This is what I do for coal loads. Instead of loading the coal into a gondola and poring the glue over it, I mix up a batch in a paper cup or even better in one of those plastic containers that a roll of film comes in. In a gondola I first try to use plastic or foam to fill most of the load. I cut the foam to fit and paint it black. I even put hills and valleys in the foam to give it shape. I don't want the real coal to go all the way down to the bottom. Next I line the gondola with plastic wrap from the kitchen and drop the fitted foam in place. You are now using the gondola as a mold. Next I grind up real coal (from Durango of course) into proper sized bits. I pour a little coal into a cup and add Tacky Glue in a little at a time and mix with a wooden stick, I keep adding more coal and more Tacky Glue until I think I have enough to do the job. The goal here is just to coat the coal, not saturate it, do not dilute the Tacky Glue, you want a stiff paste when you are done. Next drop, plop, scoop, the coal mixture into the gondola and spread it around with your fingers until you like the shape. Let dry, I have even let it dry for a week or so. The Tacky Glue will remain a little flexible. After it is dry, grab the ends of the plastic sheet and remove the coal load and foam from the gondola. Carefully peal the plastic off of the coal load and you have a coal load the can be removed from the gondola. Drop the load back in and your set. I have even used just a touch of clear coat and a small brush to highlight the coal to give it a little shine. Bill Beverly ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 09:33:48 -0500 From: "Pete Reinhold" Subject: RE: Coal load problem and questions Erik, You got the right method just reduce the water to glue to 20% glue and 80% water with a drop or two of dish washing soap. Use an eye dropper to apply and use just enough to "shade" the coal white. You may need a second round on this to catch any loose pieces of coal, but the result will be coal that looks loose. YMMV. Pete Reinhold Paint Plus Trains I've been using Highball Ballast coal and gluing it into my tenders/ gondolas with a diluted 50% Elmer's white glue, 50% water mix. I first saturate the load with alcohol using an eyedropper to "wet" the load. I then apply the diluted glue mixture with the eyedropper, again saturating the load. The problem I'm having is once dry; you can see the glue between the grains of coal. It looks wrong. Rather than looking like a pile of loose coal it looks glued together. I've seen plenty of examples of coal loads where this is not the case. My questions are what are you guys using for coal and more importantly what product/ technique are you using to glue coal into your tenders/ gondolas? Erik W Yahoo Group Page for this list is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sn3 For more Sn3 visit: http://www.sn3.org Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 07:16:27 -0800 From: Darryl Huffman Subject: Re: Re: Coal load problem and questions Bill's method of making a foam core is essential in my book. I have coal loads dating back 30 years that did not have a foam core. The strength of the glue on the outside of the load was better than on the interior. The result is that some of the "interior" coal has been lost along the way so how I have this thin crusty "shell" of coal in the tender. Looks silly. Darryl Huffman Anchorage, Alaska Don't forget to check out my website at: http://www.darrylhuffman.50megs.com/contact.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill" > In a gondola I first try to use plastic or foam to fill most of the > load. I cut the foam to fit and paint it black. I even put hills and > valleys in the foam to give it shape. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 10:39:59 -0600 From: "train3guy" Subject: Re: Re: Glue for Wood Kits JD, I use a double sided film (not tape) that is made by 3-M I believe. I got it at an art store. I apply it over some thin model airplane plywood and then put the shingles on the film. I did one structure about 14 years ago and the shingles are as tight as the day I put them down. I will have that structure with me at the Dearborn convention, for my clinic there. Hope this helps! Duncan ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 13:20:45 EDT From: m2fq@aol.com Subject: Re: CNGQ seeks reviwer for new mag All, Colorado Narrow Gauge Quarterly magazine seeks an Sn3 modeler willing to do reviews. I have a kit in hand that needs to be built. If you would like to the review please contact me off list. Gary Kohler M2FQ Publications PO Box 133 Washingtonville, OH 44490-0133 330-702-0117 www.maine2footquarterly.com www.lightirondigest.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 14:28:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Conder Subject: Re: Coal load problem and questions - shameless ad! That's right, Mark. I still sell coal for all scales, actual coal from narrow gauge rights of way (not D&S or CATS!) that actually was on a narrow gauge engine sometime ... mostly before 1955. Crushed & screened, perfect for tenders, gons, even mines. I now have C&S, D&RGW and RGS coal, as well as limited supply of Silverton, Gladstone & Northerly and Silverton Northern. For more info, contact me off-list at: cesco_rr@yahoo.com or see my ad in the 1st issue of Colorado NG Quarterly. BTW, I also recommend using matte medium over a form ... Mike Conder Mark Kasprowicz wrote: Eric, I agree with Keevan, Acrylic Matt Media is wonderful stuff. First learnt of it through Messrs Frairy and Hayden. I use it neat to hold down coal loads - diluted and sprayed for foliage. A little pricier but it dries flat. Mark Kasprowicz PS Did you know that Mike Conder has for sale, small packets of genuine RGS and DRGW coal collected from places like Rico, Vance Junction and the Chilli Line? OK ANY coal will do but this is crushed to scale and just a nice little link with the past. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 18:22:30 -0600 From: "Greg & Judy Jackson" Subject: Re: Coal load problem and questions Erik, One other method, not mentioned that I use, especially for tenders is this. Get your coal load looking the way you want as a dry load. I agree with others, essentially the thinner the load the better luck you will have saturating the full depth. Then using a glass eye dropper, carefully dropper floquil glaze over the entire load. If any thinning needs to be done, or to help saturation, you can add a little lacquer thinner right over the top with the same dropper. Usually not necessary, and use sparringly if you do, it will help the glaze to "wet out" throughout the load. I like this method because the coal remains bright and shiney without any dulling you may get from other glueing methods. The load looks the same after drying as it did prior to treatment and preparing it dry up front, you know what it will look like when you get done. Obviously you'll need to be careful with a solvent attacking the plastic car vs. using a brass tender, but I have never had any issues with paint removal or otherwise using this method. You don't need to use so much that it puddles, just enough to get everything wet. I've usually used a small wooden block to take up space int the bottom of the tender shell and the glaze adheres to that and the tender just fine. I've been using this method for nearly 15 yrs with no regrets. Hope this helps gReG jackSon3 Parker, CO My questions are what are you guys > using for coal and more importantly what product/ technique > are you using to glue coal into your tenders/ gondolas? > > Erik W ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 9 Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 00:27:48 -0000 From: "nevinwwilson" Subject: Railmaster Exports questions I am seriously thinking about getting back into the C&C/SPNG and the Railmaster Exports website clearly shows 4-4-0's that would be perfect as well as #8, #9 and #18. Has anyone built one of these kits and what was your opinion? How well does it run? Is it easy to install DCC? Is it all soft metal put together with ACC or Zamac? What about ordering from Australia, are there any issues there? How long does it take to get one of these after you place the order. Were you happy with your purchase? Thanks - Nevin ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 17:39:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Scoles Subject: Re: Railmaster Exports questions Nevin, I've built 12 of Railmaster's kits; two 4-4-0's, a 2-6-0, and several 2-8-0's. I can honestly say they are the most important elements of my loco roster. Specific to your questions- They run just fine, with a minimum of tinkering. Installing DCC decoders is easy. They are mostly pewter, with brass frames and some detail parts. ACC works fine for most of the assembly, but you do need to clean the castings first in order to get a good bond. The Railmaster kits come from New Zealand, not Australia. It's a simple matter of visiting their web site and placing an order. The kits take a couple of weeks to arrive here. If you have any additional questions contact me off-list. Paul Scoles --- nevinwwilson wrote: > I am seriously thinking about getting back into the > C&C/SPNG and the > Railmaster Exports website clearly shows 4-4-0's > that would be perfect > as well as #8, #9 and #18. Has anyone built one of > these kits and > what was your opinion? How well does it run? Is it > easy to install > DCC? Is it all soft metal put together with ACC or > Zamac? What about > ordering from Australia, are there any issues there? > How long does it > take to get one of these after you place the order. > Were you happy > with your purchase? Thanks - Nevin > > > ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 11 Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 20:41:13 -0400 From: "bill b..." Subject: Re: Coal load problem and questions here's what I do to get the coal to stick, first I use real coal crushed to size, then use MEK and Testors dull coat mixed 50-50, then eye dropper it on the coal load in the tender, it sticks like nothing I have ever used, is clean and will not hurt the paint provided you don't run it down the tender side, dries clear leaving the coal looking like coal. bill banta ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 12 Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 00:44:27 +0000 From: usairman737@worldnet.att.net Subject: Re: Mill Run Coal Here is a question/observation for everyone. It appears from looking at photographs in the Sundance RGS series that none of the RGS coal sources had a facility for the sorting of raw coal into different sizes (see the old MR article by Jack Work for details of a coal sorting table and waste dump). In other words, the RGS, and maybe the D&RGW as well, ran their locomotives on "mill run" coal for most of their history. This is substantiated by period videos shot from NG tenders and cabeeses that show a portion of the coal load in the tender. There are a great variety of sizes, a good indicator of mill run coal. Of course once the railroads started purchasing coal from other sources, then the sizes became uniform - as they are today on the CATS and D&S. If this is the case, and I firmly believe it is, then should not our model tenders reflect the practice? We need a "size mix" in them there bunkers, not the uniform size we often see modeled. Gerry Cole Longmont, CO [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 13 Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 20:03:10 -0500 From: tuhr.barnes@fluor.com Subject: Re: Railmaster Exports questions Nevin: I am sure others will jump in with their opinions. Personally, I have built five so far and love each one. With a little patience the kits make excellent runners and Railmaster has great support. John Agnew at Railmaster has exchanged parts and custom packed kits for me with nothing but good vibes. IF you're willing to invest the time in building it yourself, I don't think you can do better at most any price. Plus, I model the ET&WNC and there is no other way to get a prototypically correct locomotive. No one else offers good drivetrains with tons of detail parts allowing all kinds of customization. I can do more in Sn3 with Railmaster for my prototype than I could in HOn3 or On3 (30). You can too with a little patience and investigative work. Give it a try. I believe Railmaster will be at the narrow gauge convention. Tuhr Barnes ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 14 Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 20:02:20 -0700 From: "Jeff Smith" Subject: RE: Railmaster Exports questions Getting most Railmaster items only takes about 3 days. I have most of their inventory stored at my home in Los Angeles. Once you order something Railmaster will let me know and I will place it in UPS. Jeff Smith -----Original Message----- From: Sn3@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sn3@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nevinwwilson Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 5:28 PM To: Sn3@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Sn3] Railmaster Exports questions I am seriously thinking about getting back into the C&C/SPNG and the Railmaster Exports website clearly shows 4-4-0's that would be perfect as well as #8, #9 and #18. Has anyone built one of these kits and what was your opinion? How well does it run? Is it easy to install DCC? Is it all soft metal put together with ACC or Zamac? What about ordering from Australia, are there any issues there? How long does it take to get one of these after you place the order. Were you happy with your purchase? Thanks - Nevin ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 15 Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 22:01:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Conder Subject: Re: Mill Run Coal Interesting point, not 100% sure it's correct, though. Unfortunately, I'm in Durango on business (well, not THAT unfortunately!) so don't have any photos at hand to check. Remember, though, back then some mines separated or sized their coal in the mine itself, through grates, with oversize being broken on the spot by sledges. That would provide coal no larger than the grate size, but would have a variety of sizes. I would think that there would also need to be a finer separation somewhere (perhaps in the coaling tower at Durango? IIRC, the one at Chama has a grate to keep out oversize lumps), as fines would just blow out the stack without combusting, leading to local fires etc. "Mine run" coal can range pretty larger, well over 12" in size, too large for most firebox doors. Also, the coal would have to be small enough to fit on a scoop so it can be spread out over the fire bed. And in the case of Durango, any coal would have to be small enough to fit the buckets of the bucket elevator. Also check out old photos of period engines. The few that show enough detail reveal a variety of sizes, but nothing too large. Finally, has it been specifically determined that the RGS got its coal only from RGS industries? Probably so, but IIRC some D&RGW coal came from the mines north of gunnison, which had separation plants that were large and complex enough to produce a full range of coal sizes. I've been researching this as part of my business venture (authentic NG coal, crushed and screened), and have settled on coal with a size range of about 2:1 ... i.e., sized 12" max by 6" min, etc. Mike Conder cesco_rr@yahoo.com usairman737@worldnet.att.net wrote: Here is a question/observation for everyone. It appears from looking at photographs in the Sundance RGS series that none of the RGS coal sources had a facility for the sorting of raw coal into different sizes (see the old MR article by Jack Work for details of a coal sorting table and waste dump). In other words, the RGS, and maybe the D&RGW as well, ran their locomotives on "mill run" coal for most of their history. This is substantiated by period videos shot from NG tenders and cabeeses that show a portion of the coal load in the tender. There are a great variety of sizes, a good indicator of mill run coal. Of course once the railroads started purchasing coal from other sources, then the sizes became uniform - as they are today on the CATS and D&S. If this is the case, and I firmly believe it is, then should not our model tenders reflect the practice? We need a "size mix" in them there bunkers, not the uniform size we often see modeled. Gerry Cole Longmont, CO [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo Group Page for this list is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sn3 For more Sn3 visit: http://www.sn3.org Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo Group Page for this list is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sn3 For more Sn3 visit: http://www.sn3.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! 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